Subject	JWT's dual-pop has issues. >>>
Posted by	AshsZ (FabZEM All) on May 15, 2003 at 11:59 AM
	This message has been viewed 170 times.
In Reply To	I want to know two things, type of fuel and total timing posted by MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) on May 15, 2003 at 11:18 AM
Message	The fuel map with their intake looks like a bingo table with all kinds of variations in fuel delivery JUST to stabilize the A/F. That problem is being taken care of by a new design I am prototyping right now which eliminates the need for dual MAS, has a capacity of ~1100HP, does not require any drivability hoses/BS, and provides a smooth and effective way of increasing the airflow into the turbos. I'll leave it at that. As for the timing, that is really an inconsequential value because cars are individuals. Timing that works really well on one car doens't necessarily produce the optimal values for another. On this car we were pushing 33 degrees of advancement on pump fuel (this is actual timing, not CAS base angle) and then the power dropped as we went up from there. No detonation was ever experienced because of the efficiency of these turbos and intercoolers. I'm sure I could have gotten it to deontate, but when the power falls off as timing increases, you have reached the point of diminishing returns. This only applies to this particular setup as a car with stock turbos and intercoolers will make more power as you increase the timing past the point where detonation is experienced. This was a very educational tuning day for me in this respect. [ ashleypowers.com ] [ agpowers@bellsouth.net ] [ Zemulator Information Sheet ] Enthusiasts soon understand each other. --W. Irving. Are you an enthusiast?
Follow Ups	DYNO Results - JWT Sport 600's, ZEMulator, JWT. - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 09:47:26 05/15/03 nice numbers....what Injectors and IC's were used - NR98 (Ohio) 09:53:33 05/15/03 555cc injectors, Greddy IC's. Injectors were at 92% duty - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 09:58:57 05/15/03 Hmmmm....we have made >540 Rwhp on 555cc and they---> - Kyle(Houston) 10:04:17 05/15/03 Well Done Ash, actions speak louder than words!!!! (n/m) - MarkH 11:41:25 05/15/03 Great numbers Ash! You like that RPS clutch? (n/m) - 1991TT 09:53:59 05/15/03 RPS clutches are underrated I suspect. That's ~600ft/lbs - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 12:26:29 05/15/03 I'm in the market for a clutch...having to decide between - 1991TT 12:30:39 05/15/03 I didn't think JWT was really an option anymore, LOL. - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 14:58:04 05/15/03 In fact, remember when my sport disc broke? Well, they - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 15:28:52 05/15/03 Same thing happened to me - PLEAZURE in CA (SD) 16:39:35 05/15/03 Your failure was different from mine. My failure was on - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 16:47:06 05/15/03 nice number - 96-2+2TT(RETIRED) 09:55:25 05/15/03 You're not really telling the whole story. - ni[X]it 09:59:33 05/15/03 I know - the ZEMulator is the 'unfair advantage'. Forget AFC - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 10:01:01 05/15/03 That cracker jack toy is far more stable then you are. - ni[X]it 10:04:07 05/15/03 Whatever Nick. (n/m) - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 10:08:12 05/15/03 My point is; Without adding a standard tool like an AFC, - ni[X]it 10:37:50 05/15/03 Its not a comparison. I wasn't trying to compare on - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 12:28:41 05/15/03 than why post the jwt dyno if you werent comparing? - Chris(NJ) 13:42:43 05/15/03 That's a good point. (n/m) - ZHOUND 13:47:05 05/15/03 Because I knew it would make you haters feel loved. - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 14:55:20 05/15/03 lol....far from being a hater dude. (n/m) - Chris(NJ) 14:59:50 05/15/03 HOWEVER, those are very clean power curves. - ni[X]it 10:43:01 05/15/03 exactly...2nd runs w/ the jwt arent tuned at all - Chris(NJ) 10:13:14 05/15/03 My thoughts exactly (n/m) - ImTheDevil 10:17:28 05/15/03 4th. But at least he posted the A/F. Even if not tuned. (n/m) - hoss 10:25:13 05/15/03 at least somebody gets the point of the post. (n/m) - John@Z1 13:13:14 05/15/03 thats what I was thinking... - Spee 10:50:09 05/15/03 He's is comparing ecu vs ecu. The afc is an additional - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 13:51:57 05/15/03 500 vs 700 not exactly close....and since you bring it up - Chris(NJ) 14:55:58 05/15/03 I see your point. Then it would be fair to see - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 15:29:45 05/15/03 The problem with that is the more you fix the A/F, the - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 15:52:54 05/15/03 And if you use a PowerFC and want to effectively tune it - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 15:50:53 05/15/03 we're not talkin power fc though. (n/m) - Chris(NJ) 19:20:59 05/15/03 We weren't, but we are now. >>> - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 20:00:13 05/15/03 i will, and i hope your right and it does. (n/m) - Chris(NJ) 20:33:41 05/15/03 Nice numbers....just goes to show what dyno tuning will---> - Kyle(Houston) 10:01:22 05/15/03 Thanks Kyle! - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 10:07:31 05/15/03 Yup, the easy availability of the JWT ECU has just... - Funky (NWZ) 10:32:51 05/15/03 Comfort breeds complacency. Never be satisfied. (n/m) - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 14:53:13 05/15/03 Kyle, when I finished with my buildup could you guys - Milo (San Antonio, TX.) 10:16:55 05/15/03 Sure...we will be offering dyno tuning on site soon..... (n/m) - Kyle(Houston) 14:54:28 05/15/03 I don't get it...JWT put down the same #s? (n/m) - hoss 10:07:33 05/15/03 They didn't even break 500RWHP, we were over it for 2KRPM+ - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 10:09:24 05/15/03 Ash - can you lower the price on your ECU or MORE - jawz 10:26:10 05/15/03 his ECU and the Zemulator are NOT the same thing. - Spee 10:51:59 05/15/03 The 492 is the JWT program (n/m) - EricTTZ 10:11:50 05/15/03 Gotcha. I didn't realize the old run was on there as well. (n/m) - hoss 10:14:07 05/15/03 forgetting the comparison as its not a fair one....question - Chris(NJ) 10:14:51 05/15/03 He won't tell you. He's competeing w/ Kyle :\ (n/m) - MugenRacer 10:56:15 05/15/03 that wont do much for his business and sure as hell wont - Chris(NJ) 10:59:06 05/15/03 Thankyou for your concise business consultation. (n/m) - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 12:23:25 05/15/03 He did that for free LOL :) (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 12:51:22 05/15/03 anytime :) (n/m) - Chris(NJ) 13:33:10 05/15/03 I'm competing only with myself. You guys are just onlookers - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 11:58:22 05/15/03 Pretty much. (n/m) - MugenRacer 12:04:20 05/15/03 The base timing is 15 degrees, always. The timing actually - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 11:57:20 05/15/03 Nice tuning, ASH. Congrats! (n/m) - Milo (San Antonio, TX.) 10:19:42 05/15/03 If you want to compare it to Kojima's car. - ZHOUND 10:42:42 05/15/03 Since when do SP600's require a 5 bolt downpipe? (n/m) - aliaZ 10:48:14 05/15/03 I think these are his hybrid 600's with BB catridge and diff - MugenRacer 10:54:43 05/15/03 thats what I figured - aliaZ 11:02:31 05/15/03 Yep, but I'm not positive thats what it is, but I can't see - MugenRacer 11:06:34 05/15/03 I'd also expect less lag than that though. (n/m) - MugenRacer 11:11:23 05/15/03 yep - aliaZ 11:17:15 05/15/03 yeah, but he pulls engines during his lunch break (n/m) - aliaZ 11:12:08 05/15/03 No, he pulls it during his smoking break :) (n/m) - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 13:24:56 05/15/03 Woops. No, they aren't BB version. 4 bolt DP were used. (n/m) - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 11:54:05 05/15/03 well damn - aliaZ 12:51:16 05/15/03 Looks like it has the same spool up as my GT2535 - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 11:07:45 05/15/03 was this on your Z? (n/m) - aliaZ 11:18:28 05/15/03 I think it is Z1's red Convertible (n/m) - Tennyson (ATL) 11:33:24 05/15/03 ok...makes more sense now (n/m) - aliaZ 12:04:35 05/15/03 Yep it's the CA convertible (n/m) - John@Z1 13:21:30 05/15/03 Going to a party at West GA tonight BTW (n/m) - Tennyson (ATL) 13:30:20 05/15/03 Really, where? (n/m) - John@Z1 15:09:46 05/15/03 Its in your mouth, everyone is coming. (n/m) - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 15:29:48 05/15/03 O you're talking about that party on you're wife. Yeah it - John@Z1 16:20:44 05/15/03 I want to know two things, type of fuel and total timing - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 11:18:52 05/15/03 JWT's dual-pop has issues. >>> - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 11:59:28 05/15/03 Any idea when yours will be ready? - aliaZ 12:03:20 05/15/03 Next week. I'll also have dyno results with and without it. - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 12:21:41 05/15/03 very nice. looking forward to it (n/m) - aliaZ 12:48:57 05/15/03 How did you measure 33 degrees of total timing? - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 12:12:53 05/15/03 By the timing map in the ECU. The ZEM displays what the - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 12:20:34 05/15/03 Your post below says that the timing stayed the same - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 12:32:52 05/15/03 He's referring to base timing at 15 degrees - spicyZ 13:00:43 05/15/03 I know base timing is constant 15 degrees . He said - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 13:10:11 05/15/03 When you are reading 16deg at WOT, that is in addition to... - Funky (NWZ) 15:00:53 05/15/03 Nope. Let me explain further >>> - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 15:05:40 05/15/03 Ahh, that makes sense... - Funky (NWZ) 15:16:32 05/15/03 The ZEMulator ties me directly into the timing map >> - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 14:50:29 05/15/03 Ash can you eloborate on the this total timing part - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 13:18:13 05/15/03 If you really wanted to, you could make the timing as high - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 14:49:19 05/15/03 Ash I know you are not touching the CAS and adjusting - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 15:06:07 05/15/03 Yes, you are correct. In the timing map for that car, - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 15:16:41 05/15/03 Ashe, You didn't answer my question regarding the - MikeH(Twin GT35BB Incon Z) 15:58:08 05/15/03 is this with stock unported manifolds and heads? (n/m) - aliaZ 12:53:42 05/15/03 Ash, for once I really need to hand it to you. Nice work. (n/m) - KILLR300ZX 13:33:16 05/15/03 Thanks bro! I had a great time up to about the 10th hour >>> - AshsZ (FabZEM All) 15:00:48 05/15/03
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